• From what age can a male be used for breeding?

  • What age is recommended to start breeding with a male?

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This has been discussed here ad nauseam but since you asked, it is when the male is mentally and physically mature moreover that answer, except in very unique situations, is fundamental and obvious to responsible breeding. A breeder shouldn't select breed stock on what he or she thinks or hopes will be the end result of a dog or bitch when mature but only breed on what they know, and they can’t with any degree of accuracy know much of what is important until that animal is mature. It is common that the more experienced the breeder the more they understand this basic breeding dictum. 

 

May I ask Norman....what if the male fits those requirements at the age of a year? I would also like to know  why for what reason should one wait till two and over to start breeding from the male, that a one year can't give?

 

Regards,

Yvonne

May I ask Yvonne… requirements for what?  As the only requirement at 12 months of age that can be evaluated is there is their want to produce another dog.  How can anyone, no matter their experience, accurately assess the critical traits and requirements needed for a working and or protection breed if those same requirements can only be accurately measured when that dog is completely matured and there is no Boerboel on earth that is mature at 12 months of age. Why? Because a Boerboels’ temperament, character, work ethic and courage i.e., things that can’t be seen, have not yet been shaped. Frankly Yvonne I am stunned that anyone need ask the following question you did regarding a Boerboel which is universally acknowledged to be a late maturing breed. “why for what reason should one wait till two and over to start breeding from the male, that a one year can't give?” Here’s a short answer, it is much the same reason I wouldn’t pick a wife out when she was 16 years of age because the only thing I know for sure of a girl at that age is her ability and or want to produce children. That said I hope my teenage wife doesn’t then grow up to be bipolar or a psychopath. You know that happens even when the parents are normal and they were raised properly and when she was young she seemed so normal and boy was she pretty.

Norman...thanks for your reply, I honestly asked the questions sincereley to hear exactly what your point of view is. But is pointless now to even have a conversation with you. I have always respected your view. There are many points I would have liked to question and debate, but seems you are only out to be nasty!

Thank You.

Regards,

Yvonne

Yvonne *the reason* and my point of view is and always has been that no breeder for obvious reasons can accurately quantify any necessary trait and or behavior of a Boerboel when it is 12 months old. If you would like to debate that point so would I and as a start please tell me what in all that I have written on this subject what do you disagree with *and more importantly why*.

Regards Norman

with respect to everyone on this board.  I will ride your coat tails and 100% agree with you. 
Yvonne,
I do,nt think breeding with a one year old is wrong especially you know the pedigree background of his ancestors and you,re happy with what they have produced consistently with different bitches of various backgrounds,secondly if his health tests have been done and he comes out clean and he is a good specimen of the breed why not,yes boerboel males mature slowly some more than others but this fact alone should,nt stop you from using him if he looks the part of what you beiieve will be an improvement to the breed.the age of the male does,nt guarantee that the quality and the character of the puppies will be superior and more boerboel if the sire is say at least 2yrs agains,t a male that let's say is one year.why then do we say that you can use a male for mating anytime from 12 months old,I have seen a lot of crappy bred dogs from mature boerboels,and I have seen some stunning dogs bred from relatively very young dogs,but remember the guys who do this have very years of experience doing this plus they study their pedigrees very extensively before embarking on a breeding project like this.I wish to be misquoted but you,ll find out that most of the so called top breeders have done it once or twice in their breeding program.does breeding with male stunt it's growth ....? I do,nt think so considering a boerboel is a large to giant type dog breed,guys breeding is not rocket science and there are no guarantees all we can do is study our pedigree,know the faults and the strengths of our dogs,do all the necessary health tests and if you,re male is looking stunning at 1 year and he is going to complement you,re bitch or vice versa then do it.I would be more worried about inbreeding blindly or not choosing your pedigree carefully to avoid certain genetic health issues that is quickly putting the future of the boerboel in a quagmire but breeding age cmon people no reputable breeder in their right mind would put 2 dogs together just for the hell of it,so Yvonne would I use a one year male to bred with any of my female,he'll yes!!!!!!!!but he must be stunning,and I would have definitely known his background pretty well and seen some of the dogs that that line has produced over the years just to be have a clear picture,Yvonne I hope this helps by the tuff looks amazing on the photos for 1 year old male,very impressive
King regards,
Bart.
Mr. Bartholomew Orinda wrote in part:

"yes boerboel males mature slowly some more than others but this fact alone should,nt stop you from using him if he looks the part of what you beiieve will be an improvement to the breed".

So if I understand you see no problem with breeding a 12 or continuing your logic a 10 month old Boerboel if their health test (I assume you only mean hips and elbows) have come back clear and of course looks the part and because of that you foresee an improvement to the breed.

Mr. Bartholomew Orinda wrote in part:

"the age of the male does,nt guarantee that the quality and the character of the puppies will be superior and more boerboel if the sire is say at least 2yrs agains,t a male that let's say is one year.why then do we say that you can use a male for mating anytime from 12 months old"

As you are aware breeding is not about guarantees it’s all about probabilities and beauty aside the probability of improvement is much less than if you waited until that same dog is mature. Certainly you can’t believe the less you know the better off the progeny will be. By the way regarding the age for breeding, it is my hope that most of us here don’t maintain you can breed a dog anytime from 12 on but only breed it anytime after it is mature.

Mr. Bartholomew Orinda wrote in part:

"I have seen a lot of crappy bred dogs from mature boerboels,and I have seen some stunning dogs bred from relatively very young dogs,but remember the guys who do this have very years of experience doing this plus they study their pedigrees very extensively before embarking on a breeding project like this".

By crappy I assume you mean less *stunning*. I say that because you neglected to mention any of the other traits and behaviors that define this breed. Because our pedigrees give a breeder no useful information i.e., health and temperament, other than an appraisal score, which in my opinion is of little use for improving this breed, I am curious what exactly do you suggest we/they study.

Mr. Bartholomew Orinda wrote in part:

"and I have seen some stunning dogs bred from relatively very young dogs,but remember the guys who do this have very years of experience doing this plus they study their pedigrees very extensively before embarking on a breeding project like this".

Again what the hell are they “extensively” studying? The goal of a breeder is not to produce just stunning dogs but dogs with working conformation defined as that conformation that will allow it to perform its function as effortlessly as possible, plus all of the traits and behaviors that define this breed.

Mr. Bartholomew Orinda wrote in part:

"I do,nt think so considering a boerboel is a large to giant type dog breed,guys breeding is not rocket science and there are no guarantees all we can do is study our pedigree,know the faults and the strengths of our dogs,do all the necessary health tests and if you,re male is looking stunning at 1 year and he is going to complement you,re bitch or vice versa then do it".

Well it’s not rocket science if we do it the way you suggest because all that is necessary is to breed stunning looking dogs at most any age with good hips to other stunning dogs. From your above it would seem that correct temperament, courage, work ethic, biddability mental and physical balance are for you all subordinate to stunning, and that outlook by the way is quite common in a show breeding community which this is. Because it is much easier advertising those traits and behaviors than to identify, quantify and then aggressively breed for them first.

Mr. Bartholomew Orinda wrote in part:

"Yvonne would I use a one year male to bred with any of my female, he'll yes!!!!!!!!(BUT HE MUST BE STUNNING), and I would have definitely known his background pretty well and seen some of the dogs that that line has produced over the years just to be have a clear picture,Yvonne I hope this helps by the tuff looks amazing on the photos for 1 year old male,very impressive".

That unfortunately pretty much says it all.

Thank you so much for your input Bartholomew! Much appreciated!

I must mention, they typify what most breeders think and practice, otherwise why the websites etc. ect.? I don't see anyone advertising less superior dogs, or the worst looking pup in the litter, do you? Or the one that got the worst grading score!  LOL  But quite truthfully, I have given up conversing with NON breeders!

Thanks for the compliment on Tuffie, he is indeed a stunning dog, am truly looking forward to what he can produce!

Regards,

Yvonne

Males can start breeding before the age of 1 but I think their sperm count is still very low at that stage? BUT a male younger than 1 year should NOT BE USED for breeding. 

 

I feel that if the breeder has been breeding with their lines for a number of years and they know the temperament and health of those lines they can use a male from the age of 1 as long as that 1 year old male has had his x-rays done, the result was good and it was confirmed.

 

If you do not know the line then wait till he is older. 

Karen wrote in part:

Males can start breeding before the age of 1 but I think their sperm count is still very low at that stage? BUT a male younger than 1 year should NOT BE USED for breeding. 

All things being equal, why not? Other than their sperm count(?)a breeder can know with as much certainty as much about a 10 month old Boerboel as they do about a 12 month old Boerboel.

Karen wrote in part:

I feel that if the breeder has been breeding with their lines for a number of years and they know the temperament and health of those lines they can use a male from the age of 1 as long as that 1 year old male has had his x-rays done, the result was good and it was confirmed. 

For argument sake let's say that a breeder because of their experience knows more than a beginning breeder would regarding the potential outcome of a breeding when one of the parents of that breeding is an immature dog or bitch i.e., below the age of two. But this begs the question, do you think that same breeder will or should know more regarding the outcome of that breeding when*both* dogs are fully matured. Shouldn't, *all* that can be known before a breeding, be the mantra of any responsible breeder not, all that is conveniently known.

Norman the 1st question of this topic was "From what age can a male be used for breeding?" so I answered what I know.

I think that if a breeder has the same lines and have bred them a couple of years and the outcome of all the offspring is the same (good results) I do not see anything wrong with using a young male. That is my opinion.

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